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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 510 for the 29th of July

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2018

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Richard Seoul is here with you from

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Sydney Australia up nice and early nice

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and early to record the skeptic zone

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it's good to be up nice and early

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because it's before the flight path

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opens in about an hour I'm gonna get 83

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80s and all sorts of planes flying over

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the house but for now peace and quiet

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and 24 hours ago I was up nice and early

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to watch the Blood Moon it was a

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spectacular sight with the Mars not too

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far away I know many listeners around

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the world would have seen this event and

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it was just just beautiful I don't think

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it compares quite to a solar eclipse the

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the lunar eclipse but nevertheless

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coming up on this week's show what an

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interesting story we have for you and I

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know some of you have been following

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this it's about a poster a pro

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vaccination poster created by the

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Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

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has gone viral being tweeted and

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facebooked and whatever else you can

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imagine

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we're going to be having a report by our

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very own heidi roberts and the raw

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skeptic who's going to tell us all about

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how this poster has infiltrated the

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internet and undoubtedly it's getting up

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the nose of the anti vaccination crowd

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and we'll be hearing a bit of news about

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the anti vaccination crowd they've

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changed their name in here in australia

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again now they're called the Australian

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vaccination Network that's their core

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name and some years back they were

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forced to change it to the Australian

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vaccination skeptics Network I think to

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get up the nose of skeptics but there

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you go but they've changed their name

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yet again apparently some of their

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people weren't happy with the use of the

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word skeptics there you go have they

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changed their name to the Australian

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conspiracy Network

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[Laughter]

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now find out what they have changed

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their name to a bit later on in the show

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and coupled with that we'll be bringing

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you some news about a new movie coming

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to Australia this anti facts crowd are

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supporting it's called sacrificial

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virgins it's about the Gardasil vaccine

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which has been a staggering success

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absolutely mind-blowing how good this

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vaccine is in preventing cervical cancer

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but the anti-vaxxers wanted to have it

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stopped anyway use about that coming up

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a bit later on also in this episode our

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guest reporter from time to time trish

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han who will be talking about why you

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should be skeptical about certain apps

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designed to help you with contraception

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and timing and things like that when is

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a good time well it's always a good time

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to listen to Trish Han our guest

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reporter on today's skeptic zone and we

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catch up with Beth Darlington one of the

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speakers of the upcoming skeptic on here

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in Sydney on the 13th and the 14th of

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October and Beth has been into ghostie

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research and paranormal research for

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quite a long time and she'll be joining

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me on a panel with Sam hutchinson sue

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Blackmore and Kari poppy from the Oh No

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Ross and Carrie podcast lots of people a

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big lineup for this year's skeptic on

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more news about that at the end of the

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show now here's a follow up to last

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week's show where I was telling you

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about two things a poster doing the

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rounds of my area of Sydney the you know

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West warning of geoengineering it was a

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large poster plastered up around all

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things like underpasses and things like

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that I took a photograph of it and

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reported about it and when I went back

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to have another look that all gone and I

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had another look at another location and

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there was some left plastered over paid

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advertising space for iTunes I think in

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this case I noticed one of the the

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posters was starting to peel off anyway

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so I thought well why not I took the

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opportunity and scored the poster I

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noticed the next day that all gone again

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an apple

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by well app well the people responsible

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for the advertising and come by and

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remove them all or place new advertising

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on top of them so they're all gone

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anyway but in the meantime I managed to

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get one I've got it right here in the

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studio and it's really big in fact I'm

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gonna have to buy a frame for it

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something like 90 centimeters tall by 60

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wide something like that quite a big

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poster anyway it's gonna make an

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interesting addition to the skeptic zone

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studio and the other thing I mentioned

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last week in the similar sort of mmm

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doom and gloom vein was a fly that had

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ended up in some letter boxes warning of

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a tsunami they hit Sydney on the 20th of

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September well I was walking downtown

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just yesterday George Street the Main

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Street of Sydney near Town Hall and

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there was a guy in the street corner

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with a loudspeaker lamp with fire and a

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microphone and behind him was the post

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of warning of the tsunami on the 20th of

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September he is a little audio grab of

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what he had to say to justify your life

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when you can't behold the throne of God

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at the end of guys

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Brittany's given our domain once to die

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and after this the judgment we shall all

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stand before them who learned of God and

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now he carried on like that for sometime

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probably hours I would expect because I

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went away and came back about an hour

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later and he was still going

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the only leaflets I managed to find and

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it was hard to talk to him of course

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because he just was raving on they were

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handing out other people handing out

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little leaflets here there is life after

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death jesus loves you heaven or hell

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these look like a couple of them here

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the problem everyone is in the same

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position separated from God yada yada

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yada and they look like generic flies

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I'm not sure in which particular or

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group is behind this it's interesting

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maybe listeners might be able to find

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out anyway tsunami on the 20th of

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September watch out but now it's time

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for me to run downstairs and have a

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little bit of breakfast I think why not

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I'm going to have some toast sourdough

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toast of course lightly buttered a

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little bit of smoked salmon on top of

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that maybe oh maybe a fried egg or a

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poached poached egg on top of the salmon

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a little bit of jalapeno mustard which I

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discovered a couple of weeks ago which

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is delicious just a bit just for flavor

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pepper on top with a cup of coffee are

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you all visualizing that and I am well I

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do that I hope you enjoy the skeptic

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it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

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Robertson hello everyone this is Heidi

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Robertson this past week are pretty

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weird but welcome chain of events took

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place relating to our community group

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the Northern Rivers vaccination

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supporters it illustrates both the power

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of social media and the at times

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seemingly random nature of it it also

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served as a reminder to us that so many

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people are in fact in support of

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vaccinations and that's a fact that can

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be temporarily forgotten in the madness

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of the day-to-day struggle against the

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anti-vaccination movement here in the

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Northern Rivers so to this weird chain

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of events on our website in our vs info

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we have a selection of posters and

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graphics freely available for anyone to

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download and print out back in 2016 one

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of our administrators dr. Rachel Heep

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wrote a poster that had a confronting

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message she put it on our website and

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also uploaded it to our Facebook page

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I'll get to what the poster says in a

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minute but at that time back in 2016 the

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Facebook post had a few shares but

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didn't really make much of a ripple at

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all it so happened that a nurse over in

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Colorado in the USA saw this poster on

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our Facebook page contacted us to see if

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she could use it to which we said yes of

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course

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and then we promptly forgot about it but

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she went to our website downloaded it

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printed it off placed it in a frame and

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hung it in the waiting room of the

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doctor's surgery where

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she worked two years later just this

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week on July the 21st a patient at that

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surgery called sunny noticed it she took

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a photo of it and then she uploaded it

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onto her personal Facebook page and her

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Instagram account so what does this

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poster read here it is the title is not

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vaccinating your kids leaves them

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vulnerable to disease their whole lives

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when your daughter gets rubella when

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pregnant how are you going to explain

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that you chose to leave her at risk what

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will you say when she calls you and

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tells you she has cervical cancer

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because you decided that she wouldn't

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need the HPV vaccine what do you tell

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your son when he breaks the news to you

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that he cannot have kids thanks to the

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mumps that he got as a teenager and what

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do you say when he gives influenza to

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his grandma how do you explained that

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she won't be coming home from hospital

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not ever do you tell them that you

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didn't think these diseases were that

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serious that you thought that your

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organic home-cooked food was enough to

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protect them do you say sorry and then

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it's got a link to our website WWN

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affiliate of the poster so then what

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happened was one of our followers saw

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Sunny's post on Facebook and told us

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about it we went to her page to have a

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look and saw to our amazement that it

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already had 12,000 shares just from her

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own personal Facebook page but when I

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last looked just a couple of minutes ago

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and today is the 27th of July it had

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nearly 200,000 shares just from that one

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person's personal Facebook page so we

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got in touch with sunny and she's now a

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proud member of our group our friends at

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light for Riley reposted the poster on

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their Facebook page

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and I'm told so did many other Pro and

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anti vaccination Facebook pages all over

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the world dr. pan a tireless Pro

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vaccination campaigner in California

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posted it as did George Takei with his

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10 million followers side note I had to

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Google how to pronounce Takei and this

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is the correct pronunciation according

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to the man himself other outlets that

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shared our poster or wrote about it

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include bored Panda news.com a you the

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New Zealand Herald the Daily Mail the

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Northern Territory News a site called

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now to love another called the stir and

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it's on reddit in other words our poster

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went viral which is one of our followers

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aptly said is just about the only thing

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that is okay to go viral

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especially in the pro vaccination

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advocacy arena we received a bunch of

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emails through our website mostly

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supportive some decidedly not we had

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doctors and nurses overseas asked if

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they too could also print them out for

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their waiting rooms so I'll read out the

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first interview that dr. Rachel heap did

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with Mamma Mia quote the pro vaccination

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sign written by an australian doctor

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going viral worldwide by helen ver nuke

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July 24th 2018 sunny Mariah was at her

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doctor's office in Colorado when she

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noticed a sign up on the wall promoting

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vaccination so she took a photo and

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posted it on Facebook commenting that

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the sign was quote throwing some serious

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shade within a few days the post had

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been shared more than a hundred and

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thirty thousand times and had sent

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anti-vaxxers into a fury what Mariah

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didn't know was that the words on the

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sign had been written by a doctor from

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Australia

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Rachel heap dr. heap is in

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pensive care specialists who works in

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the Northern Rivers region of New South

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Wales in her spare time she politely and

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00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:29,750
respectfully does her best to correct

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misinformation put out by quote

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00:14:38,369 --> 00:14:34,939
professional anti-vaxxers end quote it's

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tough work but she keeps at it

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00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:41,089
quote the ghosts of the people that I've

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looked after

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00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:45,639
keep driving me she tells Mamma Mia

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those ghosts are her patients who have

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died or suffered horribly from vaccine

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preventable diseases in a six-month

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stint working in a kids intensive care

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unit dr. heap looked after babies with

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whooping cough two of those stick in her

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00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,350
memory

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00:15:08,590 --> 00:15:05,600
there was one baby who spent six months

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in intensive care and may have been left

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00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:12,139
with permanent brain damage quite the

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00:15:17,710 --> 00:15:13,610
other one didn't make it

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00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:17,720
she says sadly quote those are two of my

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00:15:22,509 --> 00:15:19,790
ghosts but I've got countless endless

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00:15:26,139 --> 00:15:22,519
other ones because people don't count

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00:15:28,210 --> 00:15:26,149
the adults the 28 year old guy who died

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of late complications of whooping cough

319
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the people who have died from influenza

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00:15:36,819 --> 00:15:33,350
young healthy people as well as the

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00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:36,829
older and more frail name of vaccine

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00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:39,050
preventable disease other than polio and

323
00:15:45,730 --> 00:15:42,110
I've seen it directly how can I not

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00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:45,740
continue this fight and no I'm not paid

325
00:15:50,499 --> 00:15:48,230
for it most of the people in the probe

326
00:15:51,929 --> 00:15:50,509
axe field we do this in our spare time

327
00:15:55,619 --> 00:15:51,939
because we are passionate about

328
00:15:58,030 --> 00:15:55,629
protecting the vulnerable end quote

329
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:58,040
dr. heap who is one of the founders of

330
00:16:01,900 --> 00:15:59,600
the Northern Rivers vaccination

331
00:16:05,049 --> 00:16:01,910
supporters wrote the words on the sign

332
00:16:07,179 --> 00:16:05,059
about two years ago at the time there

333
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:07,189
was a lot of debate about the no job no

334
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:11,600
pay policy quote I kept hearing loads of

335
00:16:15,939 --> 00:16:13,519
comments about the parents right to

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00:16:17,470 --> 00:16:15,949
choose and stuff like that almost like

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00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:17,480
the kids were possessions

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00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:21,170
end quote she remembers quote to me it's

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00:16:26,879 --> 00:16:24,290
all about the rights of the child these

340
00:16:29,470 --> 00:16:26,889
diseases can impact on their whole lives

341
00:16:32,049 --> 00:16:29,480
you don't get to choose whether your kid

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00:16:33,790 --> 00:16:32,059
wears a seatbelt there's stuff in place

343
00:16:36,550 --> 00:16:33,800
to protect children

344
00:16:38,519 --> 00:16:36,560
you don't own your children that upset

345
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:38,529
me end quote

346
00:16:44,079 --> 00:16:41,510
dr. heap had just come off a quote

347
00:16:47,530 --> 00:16:44,089
pretty tough spell in the intensive care

348
00:16:49,750 --> 00:16:47,540
unit quote we look after people dying of

349
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:49,760
influenza I've looked after people with

350
00:16:54,639 --> 00:16:52,310
complications of cervical cancer we

351
00:16:57,759 --> 00:16:54,649
looked after a guy with mumps the two

352
00:17:00,670 --> 00:16:57,769
things kind of hit together I did a rant

353
00:17:03,819 --> 00:17:00,680
from the heart it's the truth as I

354
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:03,829
experience it as I live it every day end

355
00:17:07,809 --> 00:17:04,730
quote

356
00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:07,819
in the rat dr. Heep wrote that not

357
00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:09,500
vaccinating children can leave them

358
00:17:15,850 --> 00:17:11,809
vulnerable to disease their whole lives

359
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,860
and then it goes on to quote the poster

360
00:17:20,410 --> 00:17:18,079
that I've already read she posted her

361
00:17:23,470 --> 00:17:20,420
rant online and pretty much forgot about

362
00:17:25,210 --> 00:17:23,480
it a nurse from Colorado contacted her

363
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,220
to see if it was okay to print it out

364
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:27,679
and put it up in their doctor's office

365
00:17:34,540 --> 00:17:32,050
it was from there that it went viral

366
00:17:36,430 --> 00:17:34,550
dr. heap admits that the tone of her

367
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:36,440
words is a bit different to the quote

368
00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:39,290
polite and respectful tone generally

369
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:41,150
used by the Northern Rivers vaccination

370
00:17:45,850 --> 00:17:43,490
supporters their approach is to help

371
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:45,860
educate people so they can make informed

372
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:49,850
choices quote I don't usually throw

373
00:17:55,390 --> 00:17:52,970
shade that's not really what we do but

374
00:17:56,860 --> 00:17:55,400
once in a blue moon the emotion gets to

375
00:17:59,049 --> 00:17:56,870
us end quote

376
00:18:01,810 --> 00:17:59,059
dr. heap and the rest of the Northern

377
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:01,820
Rivers vaccination supporters are going

378
00:18:08,010 --> 00:18:04,210
to keep working away in their spare time

379
00:18:10,810 --> 00:18:08,020
to correct misinformation about vaccines

380
00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:10,820
that involves quote trawling through

381
00:18:17,860 --> 00:18:16,070
crap online it also involves talking to

382
00:18:22,090 --> 00:18:17,870
friends and neighbors an approach they

383
00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:22,100
call 1,000 cups of tea quote we live

384
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:25,760
here this is our community these are our

385
00:18:30,159 --> 00:18:28,160
friends I don't want to see the

386
00:18:32,620 --> 00:18:30,169
neighbors kids come down with measles I

387
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:32,630
don't want to look after people in ICU

388
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:38,290
that I know so we keep going end quote

389
00:18:44,260 --> 00:18:41,510
obviously our poster got a heap of

390
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:44,270
negative attention as well but I'm not

391
00:18:47,620 --> 00:18:46,490
even going to go into that because

392
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:47,630
listeners to the skip

393
00:18:52,570 --> 00:18:49,490
Dick's own podcasts are all too familiar

394
00:18:55,870 --> 00:18:52,580
with the same anti-vaccination tropes

395
00:18:58,390 --> 00:18:55,880
that are always served up to us the pro

396
00:18:59,890 --> 00:18:58,400
vaccination advocates and there was

397
00:19:02,050 --> 00:18:59,900
nothing new to be read in the comment

398
00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:02,060
sections along those lines just a lot of

399
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:05,800
angry ranting which we don't worry about

400
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:09,290
you dear listener can help fight the

401
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:11,810
misinformation out there starting with

402
00:19:16,420 --> 00:19:13,610
just speaking out in favor of

403
00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:16,430
vaccination making it normal for others

404
00:19:20,620 --> 00:19:18,350
to hear that we go for our annual flu

405
00:19:23,110 --> 00:19:20,630
shots or that we've just taken our kids

406
00:19:24,850 --> 00:19:23,120
for their booster shots if you don't

407
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:24,860
feel like you can speak out in favor of

408
00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:26,450
vaccinations because of the social

409
00:19:31,330 --> 00:19:28,790
pressure especially if you're in a

410
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:31,340
region of low vaccine uptake don't worry

411
00:19:36,820 --> 00:19:34,970
you're not alone and it takes time you

412
00:19:39,370 --> 00:19:36,830
can lend your support by following us on

413
00:19:42,910 --> 00:19:39,380
Facebook at Northern Rivers vaccination

414
00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:42,920
supporters on Twitter that in our VAX

415
00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:46,070
supporters that's VA X and you can get

416
00:19:50,410 --> 00:19:48,470
all the information you need from our

417
00:19:54,910 --> 00:19:50,420
World Health Organization endorsed

418
00:19:57,250 --> 00:19:54,920
website NRV s info we're amongst the

419
00:19:59,140 --> 00:19:57,260
downloadable posters and graphics you

420
00:20:02,560 --> 00:19:59,150
can also read the common myths and

421
00:20:04,210 --> 00:20:02,570
realities of vaccination if there's

422
00:20:06,670 --> 00:20:04,220
something there we have an address that

423
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:06,680
you'd like us to or if you just want to

424
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:09,290
chat feel free to get in touch with us

425
00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:12,110
for support via any of those social

426
00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:16,190
media platforms until next time this has

427
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:18,790
been Heidi Robertson signing off for now

428
00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:35,830
[Music]

429
00:20:43,990 --> 00:20:42,640
hi I'm sue Blackmore I am a visiting

430
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:44,000
professor in psychology at the

431
00:20:47,890 --> 00:20:46,250
University of Plymouth in England and

432
00:20:51,490 --> 00:20:47,900
I'm really looking forward to coming to

433
00:20:54,220 --> 00:20:51,500
skeptic on 2018 in October and be

434
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:54,230
talking about my new book steer myself

435
00:20:58,120 --> 00:20:55,370
the new science of out-of-body

436
00:20:59,980 --> 00:20:58,130
experiences this is really what the

437
00:21:01,990 --> 00:20:59,990
reason that I ever got drawn into

438
00:21:04,090 --> 00:21:02,000
skepticism in the first place because I

439
00:21:05,650 --> 00:21:04,100
had this incredible experience that I

440
00:21:07,030 --> 00:21:05,660
couldn't understand it so I was

441
00:21:10,540 --> 00:21:07,040
determined to become a parapsychologist

442
00:21:12,910 --> 00:21:10,550
and I did my PhD in parapsychology did

443
00:21:16,540 --> 00:21:12,920
loads of experiments on espn2 left me

444
00:21:19,390 --> 00:21:16,550
all these kinds of things and well then

445
00:21:21,370 --> 00:21:19,400
the evidence made me change my mind

446
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:21,380
joints and copper got involved in all

447
00:21:26,590 --> 00:21:22,910
the skeptical movements of those days

448
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:26,600
but for a couple of decades so things

449
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:28,070
were very different in those days and

450
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:29,690
I'm looking forward to very much indeed

451
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:31,850
to finding out a bit more about modern

452
00:21:36,610 --> 00:21:33,410
skepticism on the other side of the

453
00:21:39,010 --> 00:21:36,620
world and I hope that you will enjoy

454
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:39,020
hearing the new science of out-of-body

455
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:40,010
experiences

456
00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:42,770
it's the neurosciences fantastic and we

457
00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:44,630
can now understand just why and how it

458
00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:47,390
is that so many people are convinced

459
00:21:52,090 --> 00:21:48,590
that they've gone out - out of their

460
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:52,100
body when they're really still inside in

461
00:21:55,330 --> 00:21:53,690
a minute they're not really inside are

462
00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:55,340
they I mean there's not the soul or a

463
00:22:00,370 --> 00:21:57,710
spirit or even really conscious self in

464
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:00,380
that room well that's some of the very

465
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:01,850
interesting things I hope we'll all be

466
00:22:05,290 --> 00:22:04,130
discussing in October hope to see you

467
00:22:07,020 --> 00:22:05,300
back

468
00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:07,030
[Music]

469
00:22:11,650 --> 00:22:09,830
meet professor Susan Blackmore at this

470
00:22:14,140 --> 00:22:11,660
year's skeptic on the Australian

471
00:22:16,420 --> 00:22:14,150
skeptics and national convention October

472
00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:16,430
the 13th and the 14th the concourse

473
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:20,270
Chatswood tickets at Convention sceptics

474
00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:23,330
calm today you

475
00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:42,369
[Music]

476
00:22:49,209 --> 00:22:45,289
some years before the sceptic zone

477
00:22:52,539 --> 00:22:49,219
started and the show started in 2008 I

478
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:52,549
attended a public talk given by the

479
00:22:59,320 --> 00:22:55,849
Australian vaccination Network I think

480
00:23:03,749 --> 00:22:59,330
it was called making choices I've still

481
00:23:07,989 --> 00:23:03,759
got the video this was way back in 2002

482
00:23:09,489 --> 00:23:07,999
it was a talk that Peter Bowditch from

483
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:09,499
the Australian skeptics otherwise known

484
00:23:15,159 --> 00:23:12,440
as red bags and I attended and it was a

485
00:23:18,060 --> 00:23:15,169
real eye-opener and that was where I was

486
00:23:21,489 --> 00:23:18,070
called afterwards on a blog a

487
00:23:23,499 --> 00:23:21,499
Mouseketeer only evil during this talk

488
00:23:25,509 --> 00:23:23,509
we were told that the World Health

489
00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:25,519
Organization through its vaccination

490
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:27,830
program were worse than Hitler and

491
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:32,809
Stalin and large injections of vitamin C

492
00:23:38,739 --> 00:23:35,450
could fix just about anything in the

493
00:23:40,959 --> 00:23:38,749
emergency ward at the hospital and over

494
00:23:42,219 --> 00:23:40,969
the years with dr. heo reports and Heidi

495
00:23:44,109 --> 00:23:42,229
Robertson we've been keeping you up to

496
00:23:47,469 --> 00:23:44,119
date with the activities of the

497
00:23:50,739 --> 00:23:47,479
Australian vaccination Network which

498
00:23:55,060 --> 00:23:50,749
changed its name some years ago after

499
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:55,070
pressure from the government to the

500
00:24:00,969 --> 00:23:58,159
Australian vaccination skeptics Network

501
00:24:03,820 --> 00:24:00,979
and now we learn published on the 24th

502
00:24:06,459 --> 00:24:03,830
of July they've changed their name again

503
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:06,469
the Australian vaccination skeptics

504
00:24:11,049 --> 00:24:08,450
Network formerly the Australian

505
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:11,059
vaccination network will now be known as

506
00:24:17,259 --> 00:24:14,330
the Australian vaccination risks Network

507
00:24:19,719 --> 00:24:17,269
Inc in a statement on their website they

508
00:24:21,489 --> 00:24:19,729
say we have heard from so many in our

509
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:21,499
community that they did not feel

510
00:24:27,430 --> 00:24:23,529
comfortable with having the word

511
00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:27,440
skeptics in our name and believe me we

512
00:24:32,529 --> 00:24:30,080
totally understand why what you might

513
00:24:34,419 --> 00:24:32,539
not know is that we were forced to

514
00:24:36,759 --> 00:24:34,429
change our name by the New South Wales

515
00:24:39,639 --> 00:24:36,769
Fair Trading Department because they

516
00:24:41,950 --> 00:24:39,649
decided it was misleading well imagine

517
00:24:44,259 --> 00:24:41,960
that but you can read more about this

518
00:24:45,049 --> 00:24:44,269
here in this link and then after this is

519
00:24:49,730 --> 00:24:45,059
a little

520
00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:49,740
a dictionary insert skeptic noun skeptic

521
00:24:55,519 --> 00:24:52,830
a person inclined to question or doubt

522
00:24:57,379 --> 00:24:55,529
accepted opinions the Australian

523
00:25:00,080 --> 00:24:57,389
skeptics and other skeptical groups

524
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:00,090
organizations around the world have

525
00:25:04,999 --> 00:25:02,490
taken a word that means quote a person

526
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:05,009
who questions accept an opinions and

527
00:25:12,049 --> 00:25:09,570
quote and warped it into quote those who

528
00:25:14,659 --> 00:25:12,059
do not question accepted opinions and

529
00:25:20,419 --> 00:25:14,669
attack those who do end quote

530
00:25:22,879 --> 00:25:20,429
I see so no longer wanting to have our

531
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:22,889
name potentially confused with the quote

532
00:25:29,570 --> 00:25:26,190
anti skeptics end quote we listen to

533
00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:29,580
your comments and applied to change our

534
00:25:35,029 --> 00:25:31,940
name to what we feel is more fitting

535
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,039
Australian vaccination risks Network Inc

536
00:25:40,820 --> 00:25:37,919
we think quote risks and quote is great

537
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:40,830
because it covers the risk of injury and

538
00:25:47,950 --> 00:25:44,129
death that come from vaccines the risk

539
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:47,960
of vaccine ineffectiveness the risk of

540
00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:50,159
vaccination policies that put the

541
00:25:54,409 --> 00:25:52,110
protection of the vaccination program

542
00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:54,419
above the children it is supposed to

543
00:25:59,899 --> 00:25:56,820
protect the risks that come from

544
00:26:02,779 --> 00:25:59,909
vaccinations Dogma instead of real and

545
00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:02,789
non industry linked science the risks of

546
00:26:06,499 --> 00:26:04,529
conflict of interest in vaccination

547
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:06,509
programs and those who are in charge of

548
00:26:11,210 --> 00:26:09,210
these programs the risks of removing

549
00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:11,220
informed consent and choice from

550
00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:14,190
individuals and parents and much more we

551
00:26:17,629 --> 00:26:15,929
will be updating our website Facebook

552
00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:17,639
Twitter YouTube and Instagram accounts

553
00:26:22,970 --> 00:26:20,460
to our new name but will probably take a

554
00:26:25,220 --> 00:26:22,980
couple of weeks if you see any places we

555
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:25,230
miss out in the next few weeks please

556
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:27,570
let us know and we'll fix them up as

557
00:26:31,669 --> 00:26:29,970
soon as possible we hope that you are

558
00:26:34,220 --> 00:26:31,679
happy with the change and we look

559
00:26:36,919 --> 00:26:34,230
forward to taking the Australian

560
00:26:39,859 --> 00:26:36,929
vaccination risks network ink into the

561
00:26:41,570 --> 00:26:39,869
future well this little bit of a window

562
00:26:43,669 --> 00:26:41,580
dressing doesn't really change anything

563
00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:43,679
it's nice that they've dropped the name

564
00:26:49,730 --> 00:26:47,070
or the word skeptics from their from

565
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:49,740
their organization it's unfortunate that

566
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:51,809
some media still run to these people for

567
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:54,450
thoughts and opinions and comments but

568
00:26:58,159 --> 00:26:57,090
nothing nothing like they used to do

569
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:58,169
which is good

570
00:27:04,899 --> 00:27:00,799
and as we'll hear in a moment this

571
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:04,909
organization is promoting the film

572
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:11,279
sacrificial virgins here's a story that

573
00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:12,720
comes to us from the Sydney Morning

574
00:27:19,729 --> 00:27:16,080
Herald online by Dana McCauley published

575
00:27:22,930 --> 00:27:19,739
on the 25th of July false and reckless

576
00:27:29,899 --> 00:27:22,940
Health Minister slams anti vaccination

577
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:29,909
documentary maker Federal Health

578
00:27:34,779 --> 00:27:32,850
Minister Greg Hunt has slammed a

579
00:27:37,249 --> 00:27:34,789
controversial anti vaccination

580
00:27:40,310 --> 00:27:37,259
documentary ahead of its Australian

581
00:27:43,099 --> 00:27:40,320
launch warning against quote fake and

582
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:43,109
reckless claims in quote targeting the

583
00:27:48,409 --> 00:27:45,450
government's cancer prevention program

584
00:27:51,379 --> 00:27:48,419
quote the science is in and the medical

585
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:51,389
experts advice is absolute vaccinations

586
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:54,210
save lives and protect lives and they

587
00:27:59,389 --> 00:27:56,850
are an essential part of a healthy

588
00:28:02,239 --> 00:27:59,399
society end quote Mr Hunt told to

589
00:28:04,299 --> 00:28:02,249
Fairfax Media Court I have no time for

590
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:04,309
the false and reckless claims made by

591
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:06,720
anti-vaxxers and I will continue to call

592
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:09,090
out their dangerous claims in quote the

593
00:28:14,779 --> 00:28:12,570
film sacrificial virgins which opposes

594
00:28:18,289 --> 00:28:14,789
the Gardasil vaccination program and

595
00:28:20,299 --> 00:28:18,299
claims that HPV does not cause cervical

596
00:28:24,019 --> 00:28:20,309
cancer will screen at seven locations

597
00:28:26,239 --> 00:28:24,029
across Australia next month Immigration

598
00:28:29,299 --> 00:28:26,249
Minister Peter Dutton would not rule out

599
00:28:32,210 --> 00:28:29,309
denying entry to British filmmaker Joan

600
00:28:35,090 --> 00:28:32,220
Shenton when she flies in for screenings

601
00:28:38,599 --> 00:28:35,100
it is understood that miss Shenton who

602
00:28:41,769 --> 00:28:38,609
has previously argued that HIV does not

603
00:28:44,060 --> 00:28:41,779
cause AIDS is yet to apply for a visa

604
00:28:45,889 --> 00:28:44,070
doctors have criticized the film for

605
00:28:49,310 --> 00:28:45,899
peddling unhelpful information and

606
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:49,320
spreading fear about a program which the

607
00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:51,809
vast majority of medical experts regard

608
00:28:56,149 --> 00:28:53,700
as safe and effective in preventing

609
00:28:59,359 --> 00:28:56,159
deaths from cervical and other cancers

610
00:29:01,549 --> 00:28:59,369
the Gardasil vaccine which was invented

611
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,559
in Queensland and protects against the

612
00:29:07,639 --> 00:29:04,320
forms of the sexually transmitted human

613
00:29:10,849 --> 00:29:07,649
papilloma virus HPV that causes about

614
00:29:12,110 --> 00:29:10,859
90% of cervical cancers is included in

615
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:12,120
Australia's national

616
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:14,310
immigration program for girls and boys

617
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:17,910
aged 10 and older the local

618
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:20,490
anti-vaccination Lobby is promoting the

619
00:29:26,930 --> 00:29:23,970
film screening with the stated aim of

620
00:29:29,740 --> 00:29:26,940
having the HPV vaccination program

621
00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:29,750
suspended from the national immunization

622
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:32,760
schedule the founder of the Australian

623
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:37,320
vaccination risk Network and we remind

624
00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:38,880
you that they used to be called the

625
00:29:42,650 --> 00:29:41,040
Australian vaccination skeptics Network

626
00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:42,660
and before that it was the Australian

627
00:29:48,530 --> 00:29:46,350
vaccination Network Meryl Dorie told

628
00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:48,540
Fairfax Media the film contained

629
00:29:54,020 --> 00:29:51,660
reliable information from top experts in

630
00:29:57,050 --> 00:29:54,030
the field of science and health iminium

631
00:30:00,260 --> 00:29:57,060
toxicity in quote quote has the minister

632
00:30:02,780 --> 00:30:00,270
even watched the film if he hasn't how

633
00:30:06,170 --> 00:30:02,790
can he possibly make criticisms of it

634
00:30:08,270 --> 00:30:06,180
and quote miss dory said she pointed to

635
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:08,280
class actions against the Gardasil

636
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:10,530
vaccines manufacturer in countries

637
00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:12,510
around the world and claimed that the

638
00:30:17,410 --> 00:30:14,760
federal government was failing to

639
00:30:20,150 --> 00:30:17,420
provide Australians with all the facts

640
00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:20,160
should the Immigration Minister refused

641
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:23,220
entry to miss Hinton as it did last year

642
00:30:29,150 --> 00:30:27,090
when the self-described quote world's

643
00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:29,160
number-one anti-vaxxer and quote

644
00:30:34,220 --> 00:30:31,710
American teacher kid heck and lively was

645
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:34,230
banned from the country it would amount

646
00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:36,570
to an attack on freedom of speech she

647
00:30:41,420 --> 00:30:39,150
argued Mr Hunt said every vaccine on the

648
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:41,430
national schedule was subject to strict

649
00:30:45,980 --> 00:30:44,010
safety testing before it could be

650
00:30:49,910 --> 00:30:45,990
registered for use by the Therapeutic

651
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:49,920
Goods Administration quote the TGA also

652
00:30:55,430 --> 00:30:52,320
undertakes ongoing monitoring and

653
00:30:58,130 --> 00:30:55,440
assessment of vaccines to ensure they

654
00:30:59,090 --> 00:30:58,140
are safe and effective once they are in

655
00:31:02,030 --> 00:30:59,100
use in Australia

656
00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:02,040
end quote he said quote for a vaccine to

657
00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:04,110
be listed on the National immunisation

658
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:06,150
programme it must receive a positive

659
00:31:10,790 --> 00:31:08,460
recommendation from the pharmaceutical

660
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:10,800
Benefits Advisory Committee the

661
00:31:15,170 --> 00:31:13,650
independent medical experts Gardasil has

662
00:31:18,050 --> 00:31:15,180
both the pharmaceutical Benefits

663
00:31:20,510 --> 00:31:18,060
Advisory Committee and the TGA approval

664
00:31:24,460 --> 00:31:20,520
giving it the green light for safety and

665
00:31:30,019 --> 00:31:27,379
and again that story comes to us from

666
00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,029
Dana McCauley at The Sydney Morning

667
00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:32,820
Herald written on the 25th of July 2018

668
00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:38,700
with links in this week's show notes and

669
00:31:42,230 --> 00:31:40,470
I have a funny feeling we're going to be

670
00:31:46,300 --> 00:31:42,240
hearing more about the screening of this

671
00:32:03,279 --> 00:31:46,310
movie sacrificial virgins

672
00:32:05,779 --> 00:32:03,289
[Music]

673
00:32:08,509 --> 00:32:05,789
this is Kyle from the data skeptic

674
00:32:10,850 --> 00:32:08,519
podcast if you're curious about the way

675
00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:10,860
data is changing our world topics like

676
00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:13,350
AI and all this craziness with Facebook

677
00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:15,899
and BOTS and the Twitter storm and how

678
00:32:19,789 --> 00:32:17,700
the algorithms that underline that work

679
00:32:21,379 --> 00:32:19,799
and you don't want a technical deep dive

680
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:21,389
you want it you know in the vernacular

681
00:32:24,499 --> 00:32:22,769
in a way that people can understand

682
00:32:26,450 --> 00:32:24,509
check us out at data skeptic that's what

683
00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:26,460
we try and do i interview advanced

684
00:32:30,139 --> 00:32:28,440
professionals in the field who do this

685
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:30,149
sort of research and then I get into

686
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:34,799
interesting projects as well we're a

687
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:36,570
weekly show and you can find this data

688
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:37,600
skeptic calm

689
00:33:01,889 --> 00:32:59,100
it seems as an app for everything

690
00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:01,899
nowadays my smartphone does all sorts

691
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:04,630
from controlling my finances to boiling

692
00:33:08,430 --> 00:33:06,850
my kettle it wakes me up in the morning

693
00:33:10,830 --> 00:33:08,440
and tells me how active I've been during

694
00:33:13,529 --> 00:33:10,840
the day it knows my blood type

695
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:13,539
and my wish to donate my organs it's

696
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:15,519
hardly surprising that millions of

697
00:33:19,049 --> 00:33:17,470
people willingly input vast amounts of

698
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:19,059
personal health data into their phones

699
00:33:22,289 --> 00:33:20,710
and let the software do the

700
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:22,299
number-crunching rather than the

701
00:33:25,830 --> 00:33:23,679
old-fashioned way of thumbing through a

702
00:33:27,419 --> 00:33:25,840
ledger or calendar women have been

703
00:33:30,899 --> 00:33:27,429
logging their menstrual cycles in

704
00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:30,909
calendars and Diaries for ages awareness

705
00:33:35,250 --> 00:33:32,740
of your own body and its functions is

706
00:33:37,289 --> 00:33:35,260
hugely important it makes it easier to

707
00:33:38,970 --> 00:33:37,299
spot when something is wrong but also

708
00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:38,980
allows you to predict what's likely to

709
00:33:44,789 --> 00:33:41,919
happen in the near future on top of this

710
00:33:46,649 --> 00:33:44,799
not all women menstruate and not all who

711
00:33:48,029 --> 00:33:46,659
münster eight are women and when a

712
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:48,039
person's hormone levels change

713
00:33:52,590 --> 00:33:50,169
significantly due to starting or

714
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:52,600
stopping medications biological changes

715
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:55,210
or other outside factors keeping an

716
00:33:59,129 --> 00:33:57,130
accurate log of menstruation can allow a

717
00:34:01,980 --> 00:33:59,139
person to have a more in-depth analysis

718
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:01,990
of their health so why am I telling you

719
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:04,510
about period tracking well in recent

720
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:06,850
years several technology companies have

721
00:34:10,879 --> 00:34:08,560
released apps which claim to be as

722
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:10,889
effective as hormonal contraception

723
00:34:15,930 --> 00:34:13,270
often breaking health regulations in

724
00:34:17,899 --> 00:34:15,940
doing so they claim to be able to tell

725
00:34:20,569 --> 00:34:17,909
you usually using a traffic light system

726
00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:20,579
when it's safe to have unprotected sex

727
00:34:25,889 --> 00:34:23,950
this is a really bold claim and in the

728
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:25,899
fine print there are plenty of caveats

729
00:34:30,359 --> 00:34:28,569
while on the Facebook pages there are

730
00:34:33,930 --> 00:34:30,369
plenty of posts from women about their

731
00:34:35,339 --> 00:34:33,940
digital contraceptive failures so when

732
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:35,349
the app tells you that you are in a

733
00:34:40,109 --> 00:34:37,690
fertile window couples are either meant

734
00:34:42,809 --> 00:34:40,119
to abstain or use a barrier method and

735
00:34:45,059 --> 00:34:42,819
hope that doesn't fail some of these

736
00:34:47,550 --> 00:34:45,069
companies use the standard days method

737
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:47,560
to calculate these Fertile windows but

738
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:49,270
this method is only appropriate for

739
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,210
people who fit a very strict criteria

740
00:34:55,649 --> 00:34:53,200
they must have very

741
00:34:59,599 --> 00:34:55,659
regular periods and their cycles must

742
00:35:02,550 --> 00:34:59,609
always be between 26 and 32 days long

743
00:35:04,620 --> 00:35:02,560
many women fit this criteria generally

744
00:35:07,050 --> 00:35:04,630
over the course of a year but the length

745
00:35:10,190 --> 00:35:07,060
of a particular menstrual cycle can be

746
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:10,200
extended or shortened by stress trauma

747
00:35:16,470 --> 00:35:13,119
strenuous exercise diet all sorts of

748
00:35:18,780 --> 00:35:16,480
influences some of these companies add

749
00:35:20,609 --> 00:35:18,790
an air of legitimacy by providing a

750
00:35:22,980 --> 00:35:20,619
basal body temperature thermometer with

751
00:35:24,569 --> 00:35:22,990
a subscription the idea being that you

752
00:35:26,910 --> 00:35:24,579
take your temperature immediately upon

753
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:26,920
waking up and then the app crunches the

754
00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:28,240
numbers and tells you when you're

755
00:35:33,540 --> 00:35:31,119
ovulating the biggest risks with this

756
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:33,550
type of technology is that no two bodies

757
00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:36,430
are the same and we are all capable of

758
00:35:42,020 --> 00:35:39,910
mistakes simple things like taking your

759
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:42,030
temperature after brushing your teeth

760
00:35:45,950 --> 00:35:44,050
accidentally leaving a thermometer by

761
00:35:48,359 --> 00:35:45,960
the window to heat up during sunrise

762
00:35:51,150 --> 00:35:48,369
over sleeping and taking a reading while

763
00:35:52,980 --> 00:35:51,160
getting dressed got young kids do shift

764
00:35:55,370 --> 00:35:52,990
work or frequent international travel

765
00:35:58,020 --> 00:35:55,380
good luck having a regular sleep cycle

766
00:35:59,700 --> 00:35:58,030
add to this the fact that sperm can

767
00:36:02,250 --> 00:35:59,710
survive for several days after

768
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:02,260
intercourse various factors can delay or

769
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:05,170
expedite ovulation not everyone ovulates

770
00:36:08,849 --> 00:36:06,490
at the same point in their menstrual

771
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:08,859
cycle and some people ovulate from both

772
00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:11,050
ovaries per cycle with a gap between

773
00:36:15,780 --> 00:36:13,630
over you can see how these apps should

774
00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:15,790
only be used by couples who are prepared

775
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:17,710
to get pregnant at any point during

776
00:36:22,859 --> 00:36:21,369
their use these natural methods have

777
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:22,869
been heavily criticized in medical

778
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:25,240
journals such as the be MJ's sexual and

779
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:27,010
reproductive health the Journal of

780
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:28,720
contraception and the Journal of

781
00:36:32,790 --> 00:36:31,119
reproductive health but one of the

782
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:32,800
biggest drivers behind using these

783
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:35,410
technologies is an aversion to hormonal

784
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:37,890
contraception which many women feel

785
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:39,910
especially those who may have been

786
00:36:43,980 --> 00:36:41,410
taking them for several years even

787
00:36:47,130 --> 00:36:43,990
decades and experienced unpleasant side

788
00:36:49,319 --> 00:36:47,140
effects everyone experiences hormonal

789
00:36:50,430 --> 00:36:49,329
contraception differently and for some

790
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:50,440
it's what makes life worth living

791
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:52,510
especially those with conditions like

792
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:54,970
endometriosis while for others it

793
00:36:58,290 --> 00:36:56,490
affects them very negatively

794
00:37:00,059 --> 00:36:58,300
historically there have been numerous

795
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:00,069
health scares associated with nearly

796
00:37:03,809 --> 00:37:01,690
every form of hormonal contraception

797
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:03,819
with increased risks of everything from

798
00:37:09,299 --> 00:37:06,640
stroke DVT depression

799
00:37:12,210 --> 00:37:09,309
gain headaches migraines even breast

800
00:37:14,009 --> 00:37:12,220
cancer and ironically while the

801
00:37:16,349 --> 00:37:14,019
availability of contraception can lead

802
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:16,359
to an increase in sexual liberation one

803
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:18,010
of the most common side effects is

804
00:37:22,019 --> 00:37:19,440
decreased libido

805
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:22,029
it's almost unsurprising then that large

806
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:23,529
numbers of women are turning their backs

807
00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:25,930
on medical interventions and choosing

808
00:37:31,140 --> 00:37:28,569
instead to use more passive less robust

809
00:37:34,529 --> 00:37:31,150
forms of avoiding pregnancy the question

810
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:34,539
is are the risks worth it this is Trish

811
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:36,370
Han for the sceptic zone

812
00:37:52,460 --> 00:37:51,010
[Music]

813
00:37:53,970 --> 00:37:52,470
just

814
00:37:57,610 --> 00:37:53,980
[Music]

815
00:38:00,100 --> 00:37:57,620
see a simple idiot hey Sal you guys guys

816
00:38:02,020 --> 00:38:00,110
I just had the most amazing experience

817
00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:02,030
what experienced under us under Chevy

818
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:03,680
been to the pub children nuts hang out

819
00:38:08,230 --> 00:38:05,810
with mash you know he was blessed by

820
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:08,240
peter Popoff no yelling I'm not talking

821
00:38:13,060 --> 00:38:11,090
about psychics it was a really SP

822
00:38:14,590 --> 00:38:13,070
experience now you have been to the pub

823
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:14,600
either that or you've been smoking

824
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:15,290
something

825
00:38:20,020 --> 00:38:17,810
no punters the ESB is the European

826
00:38:22,180 --> 00:38:20,030
sceptics podcast it's the most amazing

827
00:38:23,980 --> 00:38:22,190
thing you get to know so much about

828
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:23,990
sceptics and their activities across

829
00:38:28,540 --> 00:38:26,930
Europe you know events hot topics and

830
00:38:30,910 --> 00:38:28,550
interviews with lots of interesting

831
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:30,920
people oh wow cool by the way punters

832
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:32,240
you just come into the false dichotomy

833
00:38:37,930 --> 00:38:34,910
fallacy I guess that means I'm really

834
00:38:39,940 --> 00:38:37,940
wrong yep then you can even learn about

835
00:38:42,430 --> 00:38:39,950
those fallacies in the show and hear

836
00:38:44,710 --> 00:38:42,440
about people spreading silly ideas you

837
00:38:47,740 --> 00:38:44,720
should really check it out it's the ESP

838
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:47,750
the European sceptics podcast it's on

839
00:38:52,690 --> 00:38:50,390
never weak alright so where can I get

840
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:52,700
this is the experience it sounds good

841
00:38:58,450 --> 00:38:55,370
you can go online at the ESP da to you

842
00:39:01,450 --> 00:38:58,460
follow it on twitter at es podcast

843
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:01,460
underscore EU or like the podcast on

844
00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:03,650
Facebook oh and you can also contact the

845
00:39:10,510 --> 00:39:06,680
show by sending them an email to info at

846
00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:10,520
the ESPE you and if you want to

847
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:12,560
subscribe do a quick search for the

848
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:15,290
European skeptic podcast on soundcloud

849
00:39:41,890 --> 00:39:18,770
iTunes or stitcher

850
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:41,900
I don't know how you can believe you

851
00:39:45,490 --> 00:39:43,430
know how some of the medicines you see

852
00:39:47,740 --> 00:39:45,500
in drugstores are sometimes labeled as

853
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:47,750
homeopathic you might have heard

854
00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:50,210
somewhere that homeopathy is a natural

855
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,100
way to treat things like colds the flu

856
00:39:56,530 --> 00:39:54,560
aches and pains sleeplessness and a

857
00:39:58,990 --> 00:39:56,540
million other things let's just get this

858
00:40:03,190 --> 00:39:59,000
out of the way right now homeopathy is

859
00:40:05,620 --> 00:40:03,200
bunk it's based on a bizarre idea from

860
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:05,630
the 1700s that water molecules have

861
00:40:11,650 --> 00:40:08,510
memory in which dangerous substances are

862
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:11,660
diluted so much that the ingredients

863
00:40:17,890 --> 00:40:14,510
literally aren't there anymore it

864
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:17,900
doesn't work it can't work it's fake

865
00:40:24,070 --> 00:40:20,810
medicine and this is important drug

866
00:40:26,410 --> 00:40:24,080
retailers they know this but they sell

867
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:26,420
this stuff anyway this is why the Center

868
00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:30,530
for inquiry that's us is suing CVS the

869
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:32,990
largest drug retailer in the country for

870
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:35,330
fraud yeah that's right

871
00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:39,770
fraud here's why CVS is marketing and

872
00:40:44,530 --> 00:40:42,260
selling useless homeopathic products

873
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:44,540
right alongside real evidence-based

874
00:40:49,150 --> 00:40:46,640
medicine under Sections labeled

875
00:40:51,970 --> 00:40:49,160
cold and flu or sleep aids or what have

876
00:40:53,950 --> 00:40:51,980
you on CVS's website homeopathic

877
00:40:55,390 --> 00:40:53,960
treatments are nested right along with

878
00:40:58,180 --> 00:40:55,400
real science-based

879
00:41:00,070 --> 00:40:58,190
FDA approved medicines for consumers

880
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:00,080
there's nothing to distinguish the fake

881
00:41:05,290 --> 00:41:02,330
medicine from the real thing because

882
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:05,300
their pharmacy CBS has lumped them all

883
00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:06,310
together

884
00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:10,790
this needs to stop CVS is exploiting

885
00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:13,040
people's fears about chemicals and side

886
00:41:17,110 --> 00:41:14,870
effects while using their reputation is

887
00:41:19,660 --> 00:41:17,120
a major pharmacy to trick people into

888
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:19,670
buying untested ineffective fantasy

889
00:41:24,750 --> 00:41:22,460
products it's time to put a stop to the

890
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:24,760
deception and give people the facts

891
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:27,770
that's exactly what we're going to do to

892
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:29,330
learn more about the Center for inquiry

893
00:41:55,550 --> 00:41:32,010
and our case against CVS go to

894
00:41:57,290 --> 00:41:55,560
Center for inquiry org slash CVS we're

895
00:41:59,390 --> 00:41:57,300
here with Beth Darlington hello Beth

896
00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:59,400
hello how are you Richard I'm really

897
00:42:02,450 --> 00:42:00,900
well we've just had a lot of fun with

898
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:02,460
that goose Maynard we've been filming a

899
00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:05,190
promo for a skeptic on yes can't wait

900
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:07,350
and be so good and we're doing a panel

901
00:42:10,610 --> 00:42:08,490
with soup

902
00:42:12,950 --> 00:42:10,620
Blackmore Sam Hutchinson and Carrie papi

903
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:12,960
all about classic skepticism the good

904
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:15,510
old stuff UFOs and cryptids and ghosts

905
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:17,370
and I love that cheeks as well mustn't

906
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:19,530
forget them well then how could we

907
00:42:24,410 --> 00:42:22,290
happen is that where your interest came

908
00:42:26,870 --> 00:42:24,420
about my interest has been on the

909
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:26,880
possibility of items and moving without

910
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,530
you know having a natural explanation

911
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:30,480
that we know of yet and also from a

912
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:32,250
psychic perspective how people appear to

913
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:34,050
actually know about other people what

914
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:35,700
they wouldn't know about information and

915
00:42:40,430 --> 00:42:38,490
stuff like that so yeah stories stemmed

916
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:40,440
from there but of course some critical

917
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:41,850
thinking is a dying art when it comes to

918
00:42:46,070 --> 00:42:43,740
the paranormal so I'm hoping to bring

919
00:42:47,030 --> 00:42:46,080
that back like sexy so I think you're

920
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:47,040
right and I think you'll really enjoy

921
00:42:50,930 --> 00:42:48,810
some of the other people we have on the

922
00:42:52,970 --> 00:42:50,940
panel with us all all of us I think have

923
00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:52,980
had quite a bit of experience and in the

924
00:42:58,940 --> 00:42:55,590
good old classic stuff the stuff I love

925
00:43:01,010 --> 00:42:58,950
you know I that's are UFOs is my where I

926
00:43:02,660 --> 00:43:01,020
really got into it years ago and Bigfoot

927
00:43:04,190 --> 00:43:02,670
I mean I grew up in the 70s and that's

928
00:43:07,130 --> 00:43:04,200
when it was all really happening right

929
00:43:08,990 --> 00:43:07,140
gosh I'm jealous so jealous oh I don't

930
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:09,000
know you grew up in the 70s made out of

931
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:10,800
you jealous no but I have a bit psychic

932
00:43:15,020 --> 00:43:12,240
I know a lot about the Baldwin brothers

933
00:43:18,230 --> 00:43:15,030
that I shouldn't we'll just leave that

934
00:43:20,660 --> 00:43:18,240
damn folks come and meet Beth and myself

935
00:43:23,370 --> 00:43:20,670
and maybe even may not at skeptic on

936
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:23,380
2018

937
00:43:48,990 --> 00:43:46,390
thank you for listening to the skeptic

938
00:43:51,849 --> 00:43:49,000
zone here are some more announcements

939
00:43:53,740 --> 00:43:51,859
Science Week is approaching and now I

940
00:43:55,930 --> 00:43:53,750
can't wait I love science week every

941
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:55,940
year we have the mystery investigators

942
00:43:59,950 --> 00:43:58,010
with main art and myself my friend Ian

943
00:44:01,930 --> 00:43:59,960
rice we perform at the Australian Museum

944
00:44:04,450 --> 00:44:01,940
we haven't been doing that for years now

945
00:44:07,930 --> 00:44:04,460
this is where longtime listeners will

946
00:44:09,789 --> 00:44:07,940
remember we do the live science show for

947
00:44:11,829 --> 00:44:09,799
school groups and may nod at one stage

948
00:44:13,450 --> 00:44:11,839
we'll be standing on my back as I lie

949
00:44:16,990 --> 00:44:13,460
down on a bed of nails playing the

950
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:17,000
trombone much to the shock head delight

951
00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:19,250
of the school kids looking forward to

952
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:22,609
that but also so many other great things

953
00:44:28,930 --> 00:44:24,710
to get involved with a science week and

954
00:44:30,940 --> 00:44:28,940
my friend Frankie Lee hi Frankie has let

955
00:44:34,660 --> 00:44:30,950
me know that over at the powerhouse

956
00:44:37,299 --> 00:44:34,670
museum on the 9th of August there's

957
00:44:39,579 --> 00:44:37,309
going to be a bead meet the scientists

958
00:44:41,380 --> 00:44:39,589
night this is where you get a roomful of

959
00:44:44,140 --> 00:44:41,390
scientists and then all sitting a little

960
00:44:45,579 --> 00:44:44,150
desk and you can sit down and chat with

961
00:44:47,470 --> 00:44:45,589
them for a minute or two and then move

962
00:44:49,089 --> 00:44:47,480
on and chat to the next scientists that

963
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:49,099
should be a lot of fun I'll be there to

964
00:44:53,890 --> 00:44:51,529
interview some scientists myself and if

965
00:44:56,140 --> 00:44:53,900
you come along who knows I might

966
00:44:57,700 --> 00:44:56,150
interview you too I'll put a link in

967
00:45:01,000 --> 00:44:57,710
this week's show notes but if your head

968
00:45:03,220 --> 00:45:01,010
for Sydney science kaamdar a you I'm

969
00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:03,230
sure you can find out more now you would

970
00:45:07,390 --> 00:45:05,660
have heard more information about the

971
00:45:10,089 --> 00:45:07,400
upcoming Australian skeptics convention

972
00:45:12,069 --> 00:45:10,099
skeptic on in October 13th on the 14th

973
00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:12,079
and I would encourage you if you're

974
00:45:15,789 --> 00:45:13,760
coming along to that to buy your tickets

975
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:15,799
now get in nice and early well it's not

976
00:45:19,930 --> 00:45:17,690
too early the conventions coming up

977
00:45:21,579 --> 00:45:19,940
quicker than you think if you are coming

978
00:45:24,190 --> 00:45:21,589
or even if you're not coming it would be

979
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:24,200
a wonderful thing if you could help help

980
00:45:29,140 --> 00:45:26,529
us promote the event so tweet it

981
00:45:32,140 --> 00:45:29,150
Facebook and talk about it

982
00:45:34,839 --> 00:45:32,150
the link is convention skeptics calm

983
00:45:36,819 --> 00:45:34,849
today you lots of wonderful speakers

984
00:45:38,410 --> 00:45:36,829
some of whom you've heard we'll have

985
00:45:40,809 --> 00:45:38,420
more interviews with speakers coming up

986
00:45:43,059 --> 00:45:40,819
over the next weeks here on the sceptic

987
00:45:44,380 --> 00:45:43,069
zone it's going to be a lot of fun so if

988
00:45:46,769 --> 00:45:44,390
you could tweet it Facebook at or

989
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:46,779
whatever you can do it all helps the

990
00:45:50,890 --> 00:45:49,760
convention on next week's show we're

991
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:50,900
going to be hearing about the New

992
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:54,319
Zealand skeptics convention coming up in

993
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:56,330
November this year

994
00:45:59,860 --> 00:45:57,770
so we'll be catching up with Claire

995
00:46:02,770 --> 00:45:59,870
Klingenberg who will be heading for

996
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:02,780
Scotland now there's a story and well

997
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:05,330
who knows what else it's always a bit of

998
00:46:09,550 --> 00:46:07,610
a mystery but for now this is Richard

999
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:09,560
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1000
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:16,010
Australia you've been listening to the

1001
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:18,710
skeptic zone podcast please visit our

1002
00:46:28,180 --> 00:46:25,370
website at wwlp.com tax and to access

1003
00:46:31,780 --> 00:46:28,190
the bat catalogue of episodes going back

1004
00:46:35,410 --> 00:46:31,790
to 2008 you can follow the skeptic zone

1005
00:46:37,810 --> 00:46:35,420
podcast on twitter at skeptic zone visit

1006
00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:37,820
our facebook page or leave a review on

1007
00:46:41,380 --> 00:46:38,710
itunes

1008
00:46:44,770 --> 00:46:41,390
you can also support the skeptic zone

1009
00:46:47,490 --> 00:46:44,780
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic zone

1010
00:46:49,870 --> 00:46:47,500
podcast is an independent production

1011
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:49,880
reviews and opinions expressed on the

1012
00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:52,010
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1013
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:54,350
of Australian skeptics or any other

1014
00:47:06,130 --> 00:46:56,210
sceptical organisation

1015
00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:12,170
now we oh hello yes it's more the

1016
00:47:23,860 --> 00:47:16,740
sceptic zone cat what do you want yes

1017
00:47:23,870 --> 00:47:42,759
she wants her back scratched

1018
00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:44,779
and now you're going to get back to work